Am I Too Fat for Health Insurance?
Last night I rented the movie SiCKO by Michael Moore. I had heard about it a few months ago but didn’t think to go see it at the theater. I usually deem movies DVD worthy then wait for their release to rent them via Block Buster Video. Anyway, I knew what it was about and liked his last movie about 911, so I gave it a shot. It was about the health care system and how the health care industry is making tons of profit and not helping patients.
I must say, watching this movie made me want to move out of the country (since there is no universal health care here in the US of A). I can totally relate with the one person that was denied health insurance coverage due to their high BMI. BMI is a load of crap if you didn’t already know. I first came across BMI issues during bootcamp. But that’s another story. This is about being denied insurance because of my fatness. A couple of years ago I was in search of health insurance for my family. I did some research online and found some sites that I could submit my info to for quotes.
A week or so after submitting all my info I received a letter stating that my family could be covered but I couldn’t because I was considered morbidly obese and of “high risk.” I called them back and gave them the example of a body builder having a high BMI and being in shape. They wouldn’t see my side of the story and I was forced to accept their bull shit reason. I would remain denied health coverage because I was too fat.
The amazing thing about it was that I was actually in pretty decent shape a few years ago when this happened. I was about 250 to 260 lbs and in good shape as far as my cardiovascular system was concerned. I just happened to be a bit heavy, like I have always been. At my height of size feet, six foot one on good days, I was considered by most to be in good shape. Not to the health insurance companies though. They judge you based on BMI (body mass index), which is just absurd. It pisses me off just thinking about it and fuels my healthy weight loss.
I know I am not the only overweight person that has been denied health care coverage. Have any of you been through this? Let me know below.
No problem for me as I live in France!
Luck you. Lucky you. I think I recall the movie traveling to France and featuring a few folks.
Don’t think so! If you clear in your health screening/bloodcheck etc.. You should be fine for a health insurance here..
Anyway, a friend of mine know a doctor and you’ll get special treatment (you know what I mean?) 😀
No special screening for fat people. The only special screening is that they put us in the DENIED folder.
OMG,is it possible that such things are happening in civilized world… health insurance should be normal human right, not a privilege for rich, slim or whatever ppl!
Oh it’s possible, it’s happening.
Why don’t you move to a less draconian country?
I’m not being sarcastic, I mean it.
I totally agree, except for fat people everyone should have health insurance…
That’s pretty closed minded..
Shoot yourself in the face
That’s the problem in the USA. Many services that should be funded by the federal government aren’t, and are operated by private companies, that don’t see health insurance as a right, but a service which they don’t HAVE to provide. Basically meaning they’re doing it as a business.
I know here in Israel [not you, the country] health insurance is not optional, it’s REQUIRED by the government. Everyone must pay it, and is mostly funded by the government. That way there is never any case where you arrive at the hospital in a puddle of blood and you’ll be asked to provide insurance before they treat you [I’ve heard of it happening]
Yes, you should see the movie SiCKO. The health industry is run by private companies that are all about making money.
its a business you idiot of course they’re in it to make money.
Well it SHOULDN’T be about making money, idiot.
It’s like profiting on human misery
It most certainly should be about making money, what other possible reason is there to be in business?
Why not profit on human misery? If people were healthy then they probably wouldn’t be miserable.
It boils down to taking responsibility for yourself and having some self respect. If you do those things you wont be a fat slob and you wont be denied health insurance.
Insurance companies are a legal SCAM!! Only people who have not had to deal with insurance companies turning them down can be so stupid and nieve to believe that this is not true. I was diagnosed with diabetes and I am self employed. Well guess what, I cannot get health insurance. I even tries to get a high deductable plan($5,000)and an HSA and was still turned down. People don’t realize that it’s not just the things that perhaps we can control but it is things that we cannot control that the insurance companies are saying no to. Health Insurance companies are robbing us finacially and physically and the government is standing by and letting them do it. It’s descrimination against the sick. I am very surprised the people have not stood together on this and taken the insurance companies to court on the the descrimination side of it. Oh and if anyone says “you can get coverage” then let me ask you this, is it affordable?
Duh… look at social security and how much it is screwed up by being a ‘right’ that the government provides. If health insurance becomes a ‘right’ that the government provides as well we’ll have similar issues.
Vote for Hillary in 2008. Universal health care is the way to go.
I will, but “THEY” won’t let her win.
Universal health care is NOT the way to go. Can you cite one one service that the government provides besides national defense that is not messed up?
Please don’t mention medicare or medicaid. They are so far over budget, there is no snagging them back in.
Look at Canada. There is a hospital in the US, I cannot remember the name, near the Canada border that doesn’t take medicare or medicaid. Therefore, they can say NO to people who cannot pay.
What type of customer is filling this hospital? People from Canada who cannot get an MRI without a year’s wait. People who have the money and want to pay for the best, most advanced medical care in the world are coming to this hospital.
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is “free”. Without some rationing system, money or government, it is a bottomless pit.
Who is “they”?
I think you need to have watched the film “SiCKO” to understand. Its basically everyone representing the big insurance companies.
Yes. Thanks Tomer
Israel at least an overweight person can lose the weight. My wife was denied health insurance in Florida from a company because she is a Lawyer. According to the agent Lawyers are high risk heart condition individuals. WTF? Change professions just to get insurance ?? These companies milk us dry.
Wow, thats a new one. I have not heard of that before. Sad…
Damnnn thats unbelievable…only in America :/
heh, she’s a lawyer. She should sue!
You can get coverage. You must not have looked very hard. 6’1″ 260lbs, is accepted by at least 4 different companies that I know. You may not get the preferred rates, but you should have an offer. Now if you have other problems, HBP, High Cholesterol, etc., that is a different issue.
I hope that this wasn’t just an attempt to blame the system. We do have a problem with our medical system today. Not just health insurance. Why should we have a nationalized or some other form of government coverage? The current problems started in WW2 with wage and price freezes. The way that businesses could attract and retain employees was by offering benefits. Health insurance was an easy one to provide. Now we expect the employer, and the government, to proved the coverage.
We need to get off of the “provided insurance” circle and have everyone buy their own. Yes, we would need to require companies to take everyone, but only during election periods. If a person chooses not to get insurance, why should I, as a responsible person with insurance, end up paying for those that don’t buy insurance?
You want a solution? Make providers stop charging so much! What does a doctor make in Canada and France? How come Canadians come here for the best care?
Stop pointing the finger at the insurance companies and look at the big picture!
By the way, HillaryCare is a loosing program. She just wants to have more control of our money.
It depends on which state a person is in, as well. Some states, like Kentucky, have guaranteed coverage: Insurance companies cannot deny coverage, but you pay through the teeth if you are high risk. Most states, though, do not have guaranteed coverage.
Actually most states do have guaranteed coverage, thanks to HIPAA.
You are right in your assesment. That part I liked is:
“Yes, we would need to require companies to take everyone, but only during election periods. If a person chooses not to get insurance, why should I, as a responsible person with insurance, end up paying for those that don’t buy insurance?”
That is the answer there. That way, everyone is paying into the system and it will have the money to pay for those who are less healthy. This is the way medicare is set up for people who elect coverage during the “open enrollment period”. If you snooze, you loose.
Happened to me. 275lbs at 5’11”.
However, that’s the only factor they looked at, ignoring things like muscle mass and regular exercise.
Ok, that’s just fat. Unless you are claiming 100 pounds of ‘muscle mass’ (pic or it isn’t true) you are fat. If you are fat, you are a greater health risk. If you are a greater health risk you are a greater profit risk. I wouldn’t insure you either.
Health insurance shouldn’t be a get-out-of-death free card. You have a little work to do.
Let’s play a thought game. Say you run a car rental business. You rent cars for amounts well below the cost of the car because you expect to get the car back in working order so you can rent it to someone else. A really old lady walks in with glasses so thick she can’t see the papers in front of her she’s supposed to sign. Do you rent the car to her? If you do, you’re an idiot. Walk her to the bus stop and get back to business. Renting to her would be an unnecessary risk.
To everyone else:
If you want government-run health care, move to canada. I’ll happily pay for my care while you grace the waiting lists with your presence.
You should stop paying attention to the lies the media is telling you. One of my professors is a Canadian citizen. He goes back to Canada for /all/ his health needs. And NEVER waits in line. Long lines and waiting lists are bull shit and you are a sheep for believing it.
In Canada your wait-time depends VERY much on where in Canada you happen to live. If you’re anywhere west of Quebec, no problem… east of Quebec is a very different story.
I ran a therapy clinic in Fl for a group of orthopods. Over 50% of their business was made up of Canadians who couldn’t get their joints replaced in Canada b/c of the waiting lists. As a result, they would snow bird in Fl and have the surgery there. Every system has flaws. You have to decide which flaws you are willing to accept.
The problem with your analogy, Mike, is that neither you nor anyone else has come up with a bus stop to steer the little ol’ lady towards: What do the people who can’t get insurance do? You can’t merely say that’s up to them individually because it’s becoming such an epidemic that it’s impacting the entire healthcare system.
Funny I should stumble upon this article today.
I just got a letter in the mail from my company’s new
health providers/insurance provider… MetLife.
I got denied because of my height to weight ratio.
My company switched carriers, now suddenly I have no insurance?
WTF? what kind of recourse is there?
If you work for a company with a group plan, you can’t be denied, to the best of my understanding. You should go to your HR department and find out what they intend to do for you…
Mari is right. That’s covered by ERISA (generally if your company has 20 or more employees). If so, then you are not being treated fairly. Here’s what the law states:
§1182(a)(1). In eligibility to enroll. In general. Subject to paragraph (2), a group health plan, and a health insurer offering group health insurance coverage in connection with a group health plan, may not establish rules for eligibility (including continued eligibility) of any individual to enroll under the terms of the plan based on any of the following health status-related factors in relation to the individual or a dependent of the individual:
(A) Health status. (B) Medical condition (including both physical and mental illnesses). (C) Claims experience. (D) Receipt of health care. (E) Medical history. (F) Genetic information. (G) Evidence of insurability (including conditions arising out of acts of domestic violence). (H) Disability.
You can read the rest of the code — and you should — at this link.
It is always good to hear the facts as opposed to opinions. For some people who are having trouble getting insurance, this is the only course of action at this point…get a job with a larger company that offers health insurance as a benefit.
I would like to see a partnership between individual health insurance providers and the government. There is no question that the present system is broken.
I was told my health issues were stress related and there is nothing to do. Lost everything-house,job, insurance, 401k and lawyers won’t touch it cause ‘there is no diagnosis’. Just wait until genetic profiling enters the picture and millions will be denied coverage for ‘pre-existing predisposition’ of a disease while they have taken your money all the way right up to that determination!
(imaginary but very possible situation) Sorry dude, looks like that hit and run driver did quite a number on you, but we can’t fix you up even though it’s an easy job because you’re too fat to be able to pay for it… Great. The insurance companies say that if you were less fat you could have outrun that car and not been hurt. Too bad you’ll never use a treadmill again, better luck next time. (/imaginary)
I hate the insurance scam that we allow to continue in the USA.
Yup… had this happen to me a few years ago. Blue Cross denied me for a high BMI, then offered me coverage that was 3x as high as what I had originally applied for. All blood tests come back well within normal range, no other health issues that they would need to worry about. They simply uused my weight as a way to discriminate.
I’m 6’3″, and was denied health insurance about four months ago for being too heavy. They stated that I’d need to be under 250lbs for a documented (by a doctor) period of six months before they’d consider me. Mind you, I may have a healthy beer gut at 255lbs, most of that weight is from weight training. The insurance company didn’t give a rat crap though, and wouldn’t even consider a doctor’s admission that I was in perfectly healthy shape.
i live in ma and by law they can’t check prior conditions and if they do, it doesn’t matter because you can’t be denied anyway. The problem is yours to take to your legislature (in your state) and pass new laws.
Plus, next year we’ll have universal health insurance. That’s right, everyone in ma will have insurance.
Time to move to Canada. Free health care for all!!
And who pays the taxes to provide the “FREE” system? You better learn some economics.
Actually, Sicko makes a lot of bogus claims. All the health care systems he praises have massive problems. Especially Cuba. The hospital he showed is reserved for party elite and visiting foreigners. Real Cuban hospitals have no supplies and lots of cockroaches.
Our system has a lot of flaws. But England started denying health care to smokers and overweight people in some cases. They seem to be planning to do than as a policy but they are testing the waters.
You can get health care if you are overweight here. And you can get insurance. Our system is flawed, but e also have more choices which is why many Canadians come here for their health needs even though it’s “free” in Canada.
Note: Canada’s HealthCare system is one of the best in the world, and it’s free! Also to note is that you *can* get Private Health Insurance as well, which can provide with you added benefits such as lessening the cost of a private room, prescription medications, etc. – For all you crazy right-wing jerks posting here: learn before you type for once.
What else can I get “Free” in Canada? Who ends up paying the bill? And if you say the government, I don’t know of any government that is maling something that turns a profit, or even breaks even.
Very few people who are 6′ 260 lbs are considered to be in “good shape”. Fat people are a higher risk, bottom line, and have to pay for it. I do think BMI is an antiquated way to guage health, being that many people these days do have more muscle mass, but it sounds like you are just fat. Lose some weight and it wont be a problem.
Easy to say if you don’t have issues that prevent you from loosing weight. Like I dunno… a screwed up back, or perhaps you are just poor and can’t afford decent food (and yes that is an issue) and stuck in a chair for minimum wage. Loosing weight sounds easy, but it isn’t. Get over your self. “Just loose the weight!” Why don’t we fatten you up for a year and you can see how easy it is.
I’m with you JG. Or, in my case, I was born fat and was fat my whole life then had to start on antipsychotic medications which caused me to balloon even more — over 20 pounds a month for months at a time. How’s that helping my weight? They sure help my mind, but they raise my risk of diabetes and everything else. I just had knee surgery about 6 weeks ago, and thankfully I didn’t have to tell the orthopedist, “YOU take those 54 different medications for six months and see how much weight you gain.” (I had been on 54 different meds in the 6 months before my surgery. At least half of them cause weight gain.)
Added Note: I don’t know who you claim to know who is actually a CANADIAN (not an American living in Canada) that has gone down south for their HealthCare, because I don’t know a single one. Now, coming from a previously working-class family, and having just started my own middle-class family, I know a lot of non-rich people, and none of us are moronic enough to do that. Unless you’re born into money here, and want what you want now, and don’t care about the price… Why would you go there? Our system clearly takes care of those who need help urgently the fastest. I will admit that we make people with stuffy-noses wait a few hours to see a doctor, but the person who’s bleeding internally, and might die is slightly more important than you, sorry.
Uh, for starters, how about one of your left wing politicians
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914
I could provide plenty more embarrassing examples. Or tons of data on how the Canada’s system is failing. But whatever.
You know, it really irks me sometimes at the “woe is me” culture and the “we are going to hell in a handbasket” culture that we live in today. Sicko, like all of Moore’s films, is biased and strongly so to one side. He has a point, picks a polarizing issue and then beats it to death and crams in down your throat with emotion rather than logic. Universal Health Care is a terrible, terrible idea. You don’t think so? Check out England and how incredibly inefficient that system runs. And it’s supposed to be a kind of model for UHC. Ha, what a crock. I know whereof I speak. I went to school at Oxford University in England. Both of my parents are doctors here in the States. I own a Healthcare Consulting company. The BMI from this article is NOT automatically a decline. I know of quite a few companies that would provide health insurance to you. Health Insurance is a necessity, yes, but so is being healthy. Why should I an an insurance company insure you at the risk of losing lots of money when you are deliberately unhealthy. Don’t tell me you are not. You may exercise and the like, but the reality is that more weight you put on your frame, the more likely that frame will collapse or have any of a number of structural problems. Go run a marathon. I’ve run several. I am naturally overweight with a very slow metabolism. Go burn calories. Get off your arse. Eat healthy, whole grains, nuts, vitamins, protein, etc. You may not like to look at your situation objectively, but the fact remains is that you are statistically more likely to have a major health problem sooner. Change that. And if you cannot, then there are state plans that must accept you if your are declined privately. You will pay a lot (500-900 per individual/month), but you will be covered. All states have some kind of plan like this for people who are denied. Good plan, expensive…but you are unhealthy and as a larger risk factor, to be insured, you gotta pay for it, even with a state subsidy (which to me is suboptimal macroeconomically, but its far better than UHC)
Bottom line: Make healthy lifestyle choices. Grow a pair and get motivated to act and live healthy. Don’t realy on the government to provide an inefficient system because you are too weak to turn your body into a healthy, more efficient machine.
Look! **points upward** There’s one of those snot-nose mommy-and-daddy-gave-me-the-money-to-do-whatever-I-want kids now, bitching his heart out about a system which hurts the majority (especially poorer people), and gives him more money. Who would’ve expected someone who owns a Healthcare Consulting company to be supportive of a system which effectively removes their company from the billing-cycle of the health care industry? Certainly not me…
To be fair, it is all about statistics. With private medical care – like any insurance company is a business and has to be run as such. A business is out to make a profit.
When deciding who should get medical insurance, they look at the likelihood and size of future claims given your current state of health. They determine this based on past experience – ie what were the historic claim sizes of other people with similar BMI’s. They can then calculate your premium.
If you are high risk, your premium should be high. They might have a policy of not accepting clients that are too risky.
They cannot be blamed for trying to run a business and make a profit. Especially if its private healthcare.
Canadaman,
I know a lot of Canadians. Most complain about the Canadian health care system. Which is running out of money, BTW.
You have to wait incredibly long times for major operations. Sometimes years.
One o your own liberal politicians went to the US for health care:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914
More here.
http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/09/06/canadian-health-care-another-day-another-failure/
Fatman,
If someone denied you medical insurance, there’s plenty of others who will take your business.
Graham, how big are you? How much weight can you carry? What do you do for a living? Luckily, I work for a company that has insurance through Cigna who will provide for anyone. I’m 6’1 260 and damn near all muscle. I run every day, I weight lift, along with doing my labor intensive job. I play with my 3 kids every chance I get and I cook dinner, no fastfood in this house. My BMI has me at Obese, but I’m not. My doctor even commends me on my health. Now, you tell me, would you turn me down for Health insurance bc of my BMI?
Canadaman,
I know plenty of “real” Canadians who live there or live here. They all bitch about the system in Canada which makes you wait years for important operations, which often refers people to the US for health care because the doctors there can’t handle it, as in the case of a liberal party politician who came here in September:
“Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.
Stronach’s spokesman, Greg MacEachern, told the Toronto Star that the MP for Newmarket-Aurora had a “later-stage” operation in the U.S. after a Toronto doctor referred her. ”
site ctv.ca
There are many more like her. So much for your system.
Fatties cost more to fix, and statistically are less concerned about their health ignoring warnings from doctors etc costing them even more money. If you care about your health so much try walking into a gym sometime.
My Mom and Dad provided for me well, paying for my college education, no small feat, to be sure. But, everything else I have gotten on my own. I started a lawn care service when I was 12, a painting and remodeling company when I was 17 and now this Healthcare thing. I come from Chicago and my mentality has been shaped a great deal by the superior competitive instincts of men like Michael Jordan and Vince Lombardi. You grew up in the slums? Work hard, make it out. You live on welfare, or have a lot of kids and can’t afford anything? Buckle up, learn to save and invest. This latter part is particularly important, as compounding is what Einstein called the most powerful force in the world. Why? Because investing, a la compounding, allows for the systematic creation of wealth for people who previously had none. Study economic history. There will always be haves and have nots. The different today is that we have an economic system that allows for the have nots to move up the social ladder. Now, it does not work in every case, to be sure, but this system is better than fiefdoms in the feudal ages.
As far as the degradation of my comment based upon my position with my company, I quote Wittgenstein, “Whereof one does not know, thereof one must remain silent.” My healthcare company is predicated upon brining better patient care to hospitals in rural america that hardly have a pot to piss in. Board certified doctors at hospitals that are financially more secure equates to improved standards of patient care. In an incredibly oversimplified way, that is the point of what I do, helping people in rural America get better care. So please, spare me the rich get richer diatribe. I am young, newly married, with my firstborn on the way. And no, I don’t have health insurance. I dilly dallied when I got back from England on getting health insurance and now my wife is pregnant and I can’t get insurance until after she delivers. I am not whining and crying about it. I’m in the same f*cking position the guy in this article is. I simply work harder, in case something catastrophic does happen, I have the foundations in place from which to absorb the blow. I am working to get mine. I suggest you get off your “woe if is me” horse and do the same.
As far as physical maladies go, I indeed understand the difficulties that presents. Sometimes they are exacerbated by being overweight, and sometimes being overweight is caused by the malady itself. I will not speak to that, how to deal with that situation is up to the disabled and their doctors/dieticians/etc.
As far as the “put some weight on for a year” and then see how I feel thing, again, I refer you to Wittgenstein. I was extremely fat as a little kid, obese for sure. But, in the sixth grade I started a running program that I continue to this day. There was a brief period during my first few terms in school that I got lazy and gained about 50 lbs. I was smoking, drinking, carousing, etc. I was unhealthy, could barely walk a block, lol. What did I do? Same as in sixth grade, get off my butt and take a workout program one step at a time. It’s difficult to have the mental toughness to eat right (and I mean truly eat right, counting every calorie that goes into my mouth) and work out. It takes discipline and self-sacrifice. But people feeding off the governments tit, or pining to do so at the first available opportunity, wouldn’t understand too much about that, would they?
Discussing health care systems with Americans is difficult because a) they have been led to believe that even public transport is a form of communism, let alone health care and b)all sorts of ‘learned’ platitudes come out ‘universal health care is rubbish’, ‘our health care is the best in the world’ and ‘look at Social Security’
Universal Health Care, or as it is more commonly demonised as “Socialised Medicine” works preventatively – it keeps the population in good general health. Top of the range medical care in the US may well be ‘best’, but only a small percentage of the population will receive it. This is why Cuba, with its supposedly cockroach filled hospitals, has lower rates of infant mortality than the US and why in both Cuba and the UK, with their “hopeless” systems the life expectancy is higher than in the US(which ranked 38th in the 2006 figures).
You would not be denied health care in countries with universal health care, but there are some limitations. For instance IVF treatment may be denied to an overweight woman because the weight would dramatically reduce the chances of success and thus be a waste of money.
People in many people are happy to pay their taxes in return for government services – health care, roads, public transport, defence etc. We would all like to pay lower taxes but the current tax cut madness which is integral to US politics cannot continue.
Social Security is not going broke due to the inherent flaws of a “government system”, it is going broke because administrations keep borrowing from its funds and then never repaying the money.
As for Mr “I went to Oxford myparentsaredoctors&I’m a CEO and I run marathons”, I congratulate you on your large penis the the Ferrari you no doubt drive…
Nope, no Ferrari, but a VERY large wick, fa sho, lol…
Preventative medicine is the best way to go, undoubtedly. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So the fact that well over half of our country is obese has nothing to do with our country’s world status as far as life expectancy goes? Pepsi, McDonald’s, Krispy Kreme, nothing to do with it? Socialized medicine implies no demonization. It is simply calling a spade a spade. Universal Health Care is socialized medicine. You ever live in a country with socialized medicine? If not, I suggest you gather experience, before shouting your own platitudes.
I tell you I do live in a socialized health care country,(Japan) and am American and can say without a doubt that the general care given here is at least as good if not better than what you consider “the best in the world”, and what is more EVERYONE, from the fat lazy fuck wacking off to porno at the 7-11 to the 99 year old lady rocking in her chair has complete access to the health care at extremely affordable prices.
I regularly go in for check ups once or twice a a year as well as other visits for this and that and each time I walk out with an out-of-pocket less than $10US… Dental care is also extremely good and reasonable. And many of the doctors and dentists here have trained in America at Harvard, Stanford, or Yale… So they are as professional adept as any American doctor.
So don’t spew out more of your puss filled B.S. about how UHC is a load of crap. You are wrong sir. Very wrong. Health care should be a universal right, not a priviledge for those that can afford it. If you consider yourself human and/or humane, I don’t see how you can possibly argue with this. Just look at all the 40-50 million Americans who are uninsured and have to pay out their ass for health care, surgery and treatment because they didn’t have insurance… What a load of shit.
And you talk about countries that provide universal health care and the wait they must take on for surgeries.. (If I am not mistaken most of these are non-life threatening to begin with). Besides, I’d rather wait a few years on a major operation than to die without ever having a chance to have had it. Or to get the “Best Care in teh world” and then spend the rest of my life paying for it… going bankrupt, losing everything. Fuck you pal, fuck you in the ass.
And in emergency situations the same level of treatment is available at reasonable prices compared to the bullshit schemes in America. And if you want private insurance you can damn well get it here. But in all honesty, you don’t need it.
You own.
I was turned down by Farmers Insurance because I weighed 285lbs. What really pissed me off was the agent who denied me (well his underwriters) weighs in at close to 400lbs.
People wonder why our health care system sucks…I will tell you why. People that work for a decent sized company AND make enough to afford it can get health care with nearly no questions asked. But if you make enough money but your company does not offer group health care then you are F**ked. Too fat? NO INSURANCE. Pre-existing condition? NO COVERAGE. Can’t afford it? NO INSURANCE, NO DISCOUNTS.
Precisely…Drucker, one of the most widely read and respected management theorists ever stated that when speaking about corporate social responsibility, a business’ first goal, its main charge, its atomic fact, is that it must first make a profit. So, you want private health insurance? What if they all went bankrupt b/c they couldn’t make a profit? Kinda seems like belaboring the obvious, but a company must make money to provide its service. And that is what private health insurance does, no different than Google or Proctor and Gamble or PepsiCo. And insurance used actuaries to look at the stats and determine how to structure their service to allow for the company to continue in solvency for the future existence of the organization to be affirmed. People whom the statistics single out, that sux. But Israel, thanks for the blog…people like you show that losing weight, dedication, etc. can absolutely br doen with the correct mindset. Enough of America’s loser mentality which allows tens and tens of millions to be content with living off the welfare part of the state. Be bold. Get Active. That way private coverage will be that much more likely to take you since you are a decreased risk. And it’s a win-win, you’ll be healthier to boot.
thou fool! Hillary’s finances are mostly coming FROM healthcare organizations. Do you think they would let her slide after all of the contributions for-profit organizations have given her? I think not. Grow up and read. Better yet… LEARN. We americans should be ashamed that someone would vote for Hillary because of healthcare. Does NO ONE remember how badly she screwed us when Bill let her handle healthcare in 96? ………. I can’t say what I think on here…. you baffoons
Health Care in America is legally a privelege, not a right. Yet may view it as a right. Until we have a hard discussion re: whether it should be a right or a privelege, we will never make headway in improving the system. Hillary’s plan is just trying to give a privelege to everyone, this level of entitlement is doomed to fail. If we make it a right, then we need to take the waste of multiple delivery systems out of the equation for cost savings. If we do not want to make it a right, then all of the whiners need to shut up and take better care of themselves if business rightfully wnat to limit their exposure risk.
BMI is far from crap. It is a good system to determine if you are at risk due to weight. Even that body builder who has lots of muscles but has a BMI that says he is obese is very much at risk health wise. They may be even more at risk than the fat guy because they are putting so much strain on themselves. If health insurance won’t cover you because of your BMI, you must face the truth, you have a problem. 6 foot 250 pounds is hardly good shape. You have a problem. You should admit that to yourself. Get yourself down to like 220 or so at least. I’m six foot 155 pounds. What are you doing with that weight anyway? Are you trying out for a football team or something? That’s probobly why Michael Moore made Sicko, he couldn’t get health insurance because he was too fat. Good for the insurance companies, I wouldn’t insure somebody who looks like they may die at any minute. Yes, anybody can die at any minute, but being that fat is just putting yourself at a higher risk. Just start eating healthy, dispite what you may think, the weight will come off, it just takes time. Sounds like you are already up on the working out part, but weight is really hard to lose without a proper diet.
Just so we’re all on the same page, we’re talking about health insurance, not life insurance. It’s one thing (and, in my mind, less controversial) to deny life insurance coverage to someone who “may die at any minute.” It’s another thing entirely when you’re talking about people having the resources they need (i.e., access to healthcare) to get healthy or stay healthy.
Remember: Health insurance also helps people to lose weight through sponsored educational programs, nutritionists, regular visits with their doctors, and so forth. Some insurance plans these days even provide discount plans for gym memberships. Not to sound brutal, but it’s actually in the health insurance’s interest if you do die.
Hey why don’t you stop being so fat. If insurance companies were forced to give overweight people insurance coverage at the same rate as no overweight people who else would they have to give it too. Should a smoker get the same rate as a non smoker. People continue to bash the American health care system but fail to realize that the best health care can still be found in the US. All of the major breakthroughs in medicine are fuelled by the US’s capitalist health care economy. When was the last time you heard of anyone going to France or England to have a cutting edge surgery. Here is a tip, stay away from the oreos, its that simple.
“Socialized medicine implies no demonization.”
Please, spare me the naiveté. Socialised medicine is a perfectly neutral term in nearly every country EXCEPT the US. More often though it is referred to as Public Health.
Here, conservative politicians have beat the “socialised medicine–>socialism–>communism” drum for many years.
Just listen to the current crop of republican presidential canditates when they talk about health care. Almost always Giuliani, for example, follows up any mention of socialised medicine by mentioning socialism – I imagine it’s all he can do hold himself back from yelling “reds under the bed.”
Your system is broken. America spends more per capita on health than any other nation, for less return and the administrative costs in the private sector are higher than in the public sector health care system.
Listen, YOU ARE FAT, i’m not paying for your fat ass when you trip and cost of recovery is higher. Why should I ? People that have 10 auto accidents are denied auto insurance, aren’t they ? Well maybe they shouldn’t deny it but should make it more expensive. You eat too much, you get fat, you pay higher rates. SIMPLE. Get in shape, save some money, fatass…
Damn dude, whats up with the hate? Did a fat dude steal your girlfriend? Chill out. I am making successful strides in losing weight, but no matter what I will be denied because my BMI will always be high. Even at my optimal health I had a high BMI.
As long as profit is the priority your health will not be, simple as that. Despite comments about obesity, this, that, and the the other, why should your life and well-being be at risk because a for-profit company finds you not worth the risk? Money. The priority of profit over health is ludicrous, and despite the lamenting of the “if you were only like me” types, we cannot all be rich, we cannot all be stock millionaires, and we can not all be in good health and financially secure when disaster strikes. The rich will always get rich on the backs of the poor and disadvantaged. Despite the spew coming from conservatives about the liberal sense of entitlement, there is no greater sense of entitlement than is found among the rich. Exactly how many millions or billions are you entitled to? For how many generations? And all this because you ‘own’ something. There will always be the sick, that have no power over whether they are sick or not, including the millions of uninsured children in the U.S. I have seen our illustrious system in action in the U.S. They make their questionable and often wrong diagnosis, collect their money, and move you along like so much cattle. Repeat. ‘Spending’ money for appropriate care isn’t going to line their pockets over and over again. So why expect it?
Happened to me. I live in Florida.
Google “HIPAA” to see if you qualify for something called “guaranteed issue” under this Federal law.
You must have been continuously insured in group health insurance for the prior 18 months with no break in coverage greater than 62 days.
If you qualify, you can get insurance.
Write to the insurance company and apply for a guaranteed issue policy under HIPAA.
It’s very expensive but, perhaps, better than not having insurance at all.
Good luck.
A man doses himself with gasoline and walks into the insurance office. goes to teh agent and lights the match.. can i have insurance now?
lose the weight tubby.
the body builder thing is a moronic excucse, as you dont know they have used illegal substances which even though may give them low body fat numbers, their liver is to shit or heart enlarged.
Just wanted to say that I agree about the BMI bullshit. I had the dunk tank test done a couple years ago, and it determined that I have 181 lbs of lean mass. I’m 6’3″ and according to the BMI chart, 200 lbs is the threshold for “overweight” for me.
200 lbs is 9.5% body fat for me. If I ever stand a chance of hitting that, I’d be in the best possible shape I could ever be in. The ENTIRE “normal” range for me based on BMI is an absolute physical impossibility.
As much as people try to set standards and what not the bottom line is that people are different. Bodies are different. Why stop at classifying people on weight? Lets go into family history….
Have there been cases of cancer in your family? Damn no insurance for you.
Are you of African decent? 1 in 12 carry the cicle cell trait. No insurance for you.
Do you have dwarfism? Sorry can’t take the risk of you passing that trait on. No insurance for you.
You’re over the age of 55? Sorry no insurance for you. Just go off in the corner and die already.
Body types are genetic just like everything else. The denial of health care or the raising of rates based on a flawed system of judgment like the BMI is disgraceful. The dude suffering from hyperthyroidism is going to be insured, but the guy suffering from hypothyroidism is going to be denied. The problem with a for profit system is that the people that need the care don’t get it.
Medical bills are still the leading cause of bankruptcy. And the kicker is… IT’S NOT ALL FAT PEOPLE! You Mr. Skinny American system man are one car accident, illness, or genetic disposition away from declaring bankruptcy. Insured or not.
The system needs to change.
You make a good point except that race, family history, age, sex, adn dwarfism are not situations you have choice or control over. Your weight is something you have control over. You have to bear responsibility for your actions in life. You have the right to do whatever you want, but you need to be willing to deal with the repercussions. Your weight is something within your control. It may take a great deal of will power and deferred gratification, but it is in your control. THe other issues are not in your control and therefore should not be restricted (but actually already are in this system).
@Ken
You missed the point entirely. Your weight has as much to do with your genetics, which you have no control over, as with your way of life. How do you explain the skinny little guy who eats McDonalds everyday and plays videogames 24/7? Is he leading a healthier lifestyle than your average fat person? Hell no!! He is genetically pre-disposed to be skinny. Am I saying that all fat people are destined to be fat because of genetics? No! But there’s no way to tell just by looking at someone who is genetically fat and who is lifestyle fat. And until you can determine that denying health coverage based on weight is woefully discriminatory.
There is no such thing as genetically fat. There are those that are not responsive to theior genetics. I work wtih those that are obese. All can lose weight with proper motivation and education. The skinny couch potato may have many other issues. Do not neglectthe largest energy consuming organ of them all, the brain. For many, for example the psychotic, this structure consumes large quatities of energy. Have you ever felt drained after a large test or important meeting, yet hardly moved?
Ken – Another thing to consider is that most obese people don’t become obese by a sudden lifestyle choice. To imply that is an arbitrary statement that doesn’t hold. You leave yourself and your life open to the arbitrary judgment of others by making the insiuation. What do you hold as more responsible, sympathy for another human life or upholding your idea of responsibility? If someone has ample oppotunity to learn to swim, but doesn’t learn for one reason or another, do you let them drown if they fall in the ocean? You are making a statement about how you value another human being based merely on weight. That’s crazy. I am significantly overweight, and have been practically from birth with the exception of a couple years. The only use of healthcare I’ve made in over twenty years is a physical examination as a job requirement. It is inaccurate to assume that obese = unhealthy. I agree that people should be responsibile for their health where they can, but it is not a matter of flipping a switch. It has much to do with who you are, what influences you in day to day life, and your economic situation. In addition, eating healthfully is quite a bit more expensive. A life should not be left in ruins, because a slice of corporate america doesn’t think you’re life is worth saving. We are the only western industrialized nation without universal healthcare, and we are also the fattest. Telling people to step up to what you consider right, or go off and die or be in financial ruin because some elite jerks need to make more profit is not a solution.
I am suggesting that your weight is in large part your responsibility. I am in no way being unresponsive to the plight of your situation. I would help a drowning person whetehr they are stupid for swimming without knwoing how to swim. I would help someone who needs to lose weight do so, but I should be able to still feel that it is in large part your responsibility. I have a degree in physiology and understand that there are norma human variations in metabolism. Having worked in a bariatric unit for the morbidly obese, I have seen inumerable patients who claim a genetic disposition. Yet with inpatient admissions and true restrictions of calories, they lose weight quickly. This is a simple mathematical equation superimosed by complex psychological behavior. Physical dependency is much easier to address than habits. As a result, diet and lifestyle chagne can be the most difficult thing anyone can do. I am sympathetic to this. However, these are choices adn as a result come with responsibilty. Do not ask for a capitalistic system to be sensative to lifestyle choices, or make heath care a right. You cannot do both.
I would like to reinforce that I am very sympathetic to the plight of the obese. They are in a very difficult and dangerous situation. However, blaming their genetics or others diminshes the fact that they need to be respobnsible for their situation. This is very unfortunate since much of their education comes from television or mainstream media thatis dispensing a salespitch for something (a device or book). Human nature will buy the quick fix, not the life long path. This sets many up for failure and a sense of desparation. To survive, human nature is to displace on others or uncontrollable situations (genetics, medication, disability). As a result, obesity is a very complex and difficult situation that requires empathy and caring to resolve. This does not mean that you muct lie to someone. They must realize that they are responsible for their situation and as a result can be responsible for remediating that same situation.
Ken, I tried sending you an email. Could you contact me please.
The captialistic system is what FAILS miserably when it comes to healthcare. You talk of degrees in physiology and working with the obese, but I can bet your services don’t come to those in need for cheap. I would in fact bet that the cost of going to a clinic is more expensive than regular hospitals and isn’t covered by insurance.
In a capitalistic system there is more money to be made in prolonging the problem and half assing the diagnoses than there is in actually treating the patient and fixing the problem. When it’s a car mechanic playing with people that way… I can let it slide, but when the medical industry does it with people’s lives there needs to be a change. When the medical industry is capitalistic there’s no money to be made in the cure or in preventative medicine and the whole oath to do no harm goes out the window. A capitalistic society loves fat people because they’re the ones that will have problems because there’s no motivation to help them. The average obese person isn’t going to have the training you’ve had. All they’ve got is media teaching them that there is a quick fix with this pill or this diet. But a capitalist system doesn’t focus on preventative medicine. The US is so far behind the curve on preventative medicine in comparison to other western countries it’s disgraceful.
I cannot believe that you think that
In response to Ken: What if it were found that you could be significantly healthier if you ran a marathon every week? Knowing this isn’t sufficient motivation to do it. I would guess there are things you could do to optimize your health even more, but don’t. By a certain set of standards, maintaining whatever weight you are may be considered ‘responsible’. Perhaps it should be taken in to consideration next medical treatment you need that you have not done all you could to optimize your health, and perhaps you should be denied coverage. It actually takes no will power at all to change habits given sufficient motivation. I’m sure there are influences in your life from early childhood onward that have kept you on or going back to your particular course. When we talk about choices we are really talking about actions that are born of interaction between the nature of something and the nature of its environment. People are predisposed to be influenced by one thing or another, and having someone who is predisposed otherwise tell you you are irresponsible is an argument from ignorance. It is almost like saying iron filings have a choice not to be attracted to a magnet. Clearly, having a certain position suits your agenda, just as a corporation deciding whether to pay for your treatment has theirs. That motivation being to make as much money as possible, to get away with as much as possible, while trying to persuade people that they are the good guys, and the best choice. A corporation is legally obligated to try to make a profit. This does not fit well with a healthy attitude towards the well-being of humanity. Should we go back to privatizing the fire department? Perhaps the ‘negligent’ person who left the candle burning should be left behind, because they had the ‘choice’ to put it out. Or maybe they didn’t pay their fire premium this month. “Sorry your on your own.” The only way people are going to do something that is different than what they do by default is to have sufficient pull in another direction. Letting people die or be otherwise devastated in the interim is not acceptable. Yes, believe it or not, even less acceptable than the sacrificing of profit, or accepting the dreaded capitalist nightmare of socialized medicine. The movie Sicko asked some important questions in regard to our attitude towards caring for one another: Who are we? What have we become? As has been displayed by some of the posts here, the answer ain’t pretty.
I think that I may not have been clear. For that I am sorry. I actually dislike our present system. I feel that the overhead and waste created by a privatized system of multiple duplicative entities results in more money being spent on advertizing and the management of care than on the care itself. As a provider, knowing what the overhead is for the system I work in frustrates me greatly. However, I feel that much of the angst present is being directed at the providers and the insurers. The changes that need to occur are in the system and the users of the system. However, I do disagree with your statements regarding predisposing factors. There is a large difference between age, race, and sex and behavior. While prior experiences and environments definitely affect choice, it is still a choice. As a result, there is responsibility for that choioce. Because you were raised eating a certain way doesn’t mean that you get a free pass for not changing this habit in the face of proper education re: the risks of continuing this behavior. I will grant you that the amount of misinformation re: diet and exercise gives some pause to full responsibility.
After reading so many of you disliking the health insurance system, just don’t support it. Negotiate your own fees with the providers. Set up your own savings account and put $500 per month into it. If you’re so healthy then, after 10 years you’ll have $60,OOO plus interest! After 30 years you’ll have $180,000 plus interest. This way you can pay your own way. And if you don’t ever use it think of the money you have saved.
If you don’t like it don’t participate. I don’t want a nationalized/socialized/governmentized or whatever “ized” you want to use, health insurance system. I prefer the free market way. Why should I have to have what someone else desides I should have? What should we control next, what car we drive? what food we eat? what clothes we wear? If you don’t like the system we have, move! I’m sure someone will pay for your one way ticket out of the best country in the world.
So what do you do after the third year and you have $18,000 in the account and you need bypass surgery for $130,000? That is the whole basis of insurance – to protect you from the catastrophic, life alterning event.
If a person is dumb enough to not have at least catastrophic coverage, that is their problem. File bankruptcy, borrow the money, who cares? If they don’t like the system, get out and stop whining about it. Nobody makes anyone buy life insurance but if they are so irresponsible as to not protect their family, why should I have to pay for their stupidity?
The point of my post was to make people realize that they have a choice, however irresponsible it may be, to not be involved in a system that they don’t believe in. If someone doesn’t like the system that we have, get out of it. I don’t want someone else to tell me what I should have or not have. I choose to protect my family and financial situation and have health insurance.
This country was based on freedom of choice. I choose to believe in our country, it’s the best one on Earth.
@Ken
Ok, I understand your frustration with the system, but the fact remains that the money that runs the system and maintains the system resides with the providers and the insurers. Therefore the power to change the system resides with them. Capitalism, those with the money have the power. The people that need the help are not getting the help and there is no good system in place to remedy that. Like I said, preventative medicine is dismal in this country and nutrition is included in preventative medicine. What we have here is a country where over 40% are uninsured. Either their company has found a loophole and won’t provide them with insurance or they cannot get insured under private means. The more and more people we have that are uninsured the more you’re gonna see the obesity rates rise because as I’ve said time and time again, the people that need the help can’t get it in the current system. I’ve been with my company for almost 10 years now and watched my health benefits slowly diminish. If I was to seek private health care, my salary would still be calculated based on me being covered by my company. So I’d be making the same as I do now, but be paying more for private insurance out of my own pocket. How is that a capitalistic system? The easy answer is leave my job, but then that leaves me with no health care and no income. The system we have screws the working man. Because not everyone has the same working conditions. Not everyone can afford to pay the same premiums. Does the seasonal ditch digger have to die because he can’t get adequate care just because he can’t afford private insurance? A single payer system is the only way that we can have everyone covered since everyone pays taxes on a percentage basis. (more or less, but don’t get me started on your screwed up tax system)
There is a large portion of people who can have insurance, but refuse it. I have spoken to people that don’t want it even if it is only a small deduction from their paycheck. The statistics for the uninsured needs to be broken down to show those that choose not to have it and those who simply cannot afford it or those who are discriminated against due to weight or age.
Re: Ken’s post
As I explained, ‘knowing’ something is not sufficient to effect a permanent change in one’s life. I am interested in knowing what your definition of choice is. Whatever name it is given it comes about by a process. It is not a matter of being told “do this or else”, and then people automatically do it (although that does work with many people (not a compliment)). Choice is a result of persuasion by degrees. Persuasion is why we communicate ideas, opinions, etc, in the first place, just as in this forum. It must move people on a number of levels, intellectual, physical, emotional, etc., to be adopted into their regular everyday lives. The ‘free will’ will follow rules just like anything else, and is not an all powerful, all knowing arbiter that determines what will and won’t be done. If we are to talk about facts, then here’s one: “Currently, an estimated 65.2 percent of U.S. adults, age 20 years and older, and 15 percent of children and adolescents are overweight and 30.5 percent are obese (childhood or pediatric obesity)” – from obesityinamerica.org. I would guess that all of these people are not irresponsible raving maniacs that want to die early or put financial burdens on themselves and regular weight people. Now, if you’re saying all these people, including myself, are irresponsible by your specific perspective, then it must follow that we are either irresponsible by nature or influence or some combination of the two. If you’re suggesting that if a certain choice isn’t made even when ‘knowing’ something, then you are making a statement about our nature, nature which follows rules. So by your position it seems you are suggesting we are irresponsible by nature. If not, why wouldn’t we choose to be regular weight? If I, or anyone else, were to need medical treatment they should not check your weight, or bad habits (or lack of good habits) at the door before deciding whether to treat you or bill you into bankruptcy. This type of responsibility, towards one another, is the more important.
Thanks for all the comments guys.